So you want a limo that can carry more than eight passengers

If you have been searching for a limousine that can carry more than 8 passengers, then the chances are you will have come across many limousine companies that have told you that it is not possible to legally carry more than eight. If you have found this article, there is a good chance that you have not been deterred and have decided to continue your quest. This is not without its risks. Contrary to popular belief, these companies have not simply said that it is illegal just because they don’t have any limousines that can seat more than eight passengers. They are making a valid point, the bottom line is, if you go to a limousine company that is licensed with their local authority for private hire, then the maximum number of passengers that can be carried, irrespective of the size of the vehicle is eight.

If the limousine company has a Bus Operators Licence, a driver with an appropriate PCV Licence and the limousine has a Certificate of Initial Fitness, then more than 8 passengers can be carried, unfortunately, because of the cost of conversion, the number of vehicles with a COIF in the UK is very limited. Maybe you are now asking why so many companies appear to be offering limousines that can carry more than 8 passengers. Well if you really want to know how and the risks YOU may be taking, read on.

In order that a limousine can carry more than 8 passengers for hire and reward, it must first be issued with what is known as a Certificate of Initial Fitness, or by its abbreviated term, a CoIF. The problem here is that the conversion work to gain a CoIF requires a substantial investment and this would have to be reflected in the cost of the limousines and therefore the hire charges, making it too prohibitive for most operators . At this time, there are a very limited number of limousines with a CoIF, probably less than 20 in the country and those that do have a CoIF will, quite rightly, shout about it.

 

Whilst there is certainly some merit in having a strict conformity process for vehicles that could regularly be carrying up to 16 passengers, there is also an argument that the regulations where never designed for stretched limousines and therefore some flexibility should be considered to make conformity easier to attain, without necessitating a relaxing of the rules that may put passengers at risk. Needless to say, the authorities have not listened to the industry and therefore, the more enterprising operators have sought and found a work around.

 

Currently, it is possible to complete some minor conversion work and then register a limousine as a private minibus, this is perfectly legal and means that the limousine will not have had to pass an SVA or gained a Certificate of Initial Fitness. Once the limousine has been registered as a private minibus, it can be used to carry up to 16 passengers, depending on weight etc. Therefore anyone is entitled to drive this ‘private minibus’ on a normal drivers licence, provided they have a D1 on their licence. However, it still cannot, under any circumstances, be used for hire and reward without the Certificate of Initial Fitness.

 

With limousines costing anything up to £100,000, few operators will be willing to actually let you drive the limousine yourself, so the criteria employed to be deemed an appropriate driver is quite strict, this means that in many cases, you will be obliged to employ a chauffeur from an approved ‘pool’ of chauffeurs provided by the limousine company. No two operators work in the same way, but here is a typical example of how the practice works.

 

You and a group of 13 friends want to hire a limousine that can carry all 14, but, for whatever reason, you do not want to hire two limousines. Therefore, you approach a company that operates a 14 seat limousine which has been registered as a private minibus and they are prepared to hire out on a self-drive hire contract. The limousine operator will agree to hire you the limousine on a “self-drive” basis, but (typically) insist that, because it is a large and a specialist vehicle, you use an experienced, professional driver or chauffeur from a ‘company’ that provides these on a casual basis. Then, under normal circumstances, you would pay the hire fees to the limousine operator and settle with the chauffeur direct. So, whilst there is a little more paperwork, you now have a limousine which can carry you and all of your friends.

 

Is this legal? Probably, but no-one really knows, the self-drive hire contract and the rules governing the scheme were, by all accounts drawn up by a Barrister with expertise in the transport sector. It would appear that the Barrister has indicated that provided the rules are followed, the practice is perfectly legal under existing legislation. Those operating this scheme now claim that it is legal, in the strictest sense, this is not true, all they have had is a ‘barristers opinion’ and that is all it is, to determine whether or not the scheme is legal would require a court case. So far, VOSA who would normally enforce the rules have done nothing, so the whole matter remains in abeyance.

 

Nonetheless, there are risks attached, and these fall mainly with the hirer. For example, the hire agreement would normally make clear that the vehicle cannot be used for ‘hire and reward’, that is to say, the hirer cannot accept payment from his or her friends towards the cost of the vehicle. In reality, is is most unlikely that anyone would be feeling the benevolent towards their friends or family. If it was proven that the vehicle was indeed used for hire and reward, then the hirer could be charged, amongst other things, with operating a vehicle for hire and reward without an Operator Licence and without a Certificate of Initial Fitness.

 

The driver or chauffeur would also not be immune from prosecution if it could be proved that he or she was, in any way, complicit in the arrangement. In addition, most self-drive hire vehicles are not insured for hire and reward, therefore, if your vehicle was involved in accident, the hirer, could theoretically become personally liable for any claims. Some insurance companies have included hire and reward on the policies, but it is fair to conclude that if they are insuring the limousine (or private minibus) for hire and reward, the insurance companies and therefore the limousine operators must have an inkling that the vehicle may actually be used for that purpose.

 

On a self-drive hire policy, there is also the very real possibility that the vehicle has an insurance excess, therefore it is conceivable that the limousine operator will seek to recover this from the hirer in the event of an ‘fault’ accident. If the hirer has “employed” a driver from a pool proposed by the limousine operator, it may not be reasonable for the hirer to be responsible for the excess in the event of an accident where their driver was at fault.

 

This practice is relatively new and untested in respect of the current legislation, but it is probably more of a moral issue than a legal one. Few would condemn business people who look to get a return on their considerable investment by finding ways to provide consumers with what they want. However, if there was not a justification for a Certificate of Initial Fitness on a passenger carrying vehicle used for hire and reward, then surely it would no be there. It is safe to assume that the authorities consider compliance to be a safety issue.

 

Furthermore, there is probably no need for a company operating in this way (self-drive hire) to have a private hire or bus operator licence, if this is the case, then how safe can the passengers feel when there is, theoretically, no regular checks on the chauffeur and the vehicle? Limousine companies that operate a limousine business for hire and reward are required (from 1st January 2008) to have either a private hire licence or a bus operator licence. Both of these licenses require that the limousine are subjected to a strict and regular test. In addition, the private hire operators or bus operators must employ drivers with the appropriate licence for the vehicle in question, this means that the chauffeur will have been subjected to a medical and criminal records bureau check.

 

For those consumers that intend to hire a limousine with a view to carrying more than 8 passengers from a self-drive hire limousine operator then we recommend that they consider the following:

1. Read the self-drive contract hire carefully.

2. Tell the company you intend to hire the limousine from how you intend to fund the vehicle and ask them if that would be considered hire and reward, then note their response in writing or do this in front of a witness. One definition of hire and reward has been provided by the Transport Office, you can read it here: Definition of Hire and Reward

3. Check the terms and conditions of the hire to see whether or not the vehicle is covered for hire and reward, if it is, and you should fall foul with the law, then in theory you will not be in a position where the vehicle is uninsured.

4. Find out if there is a policy excess and if there is, who would be responsible for reimbursement in the event that accident was considered the fault of your driver

5. Remember, you are employing the chauffeur, so try and establish whether or not you will still be liable for the hire cost if the driver does not turn up

6. Establish who will be responsible in the event that the vehicle has any faults which could give rise to Police action at the roadside. Would it be you as the hirer, the driver, or the hire company. It may be that all, or just some of you would be considered responsible.

7. You should be aware, that ignorance of the law is not considered an excuse. So be under no illusion, if you intend to accept any form of payment from any of the passengers, that provides them with the right to be carried in the limousine, then this is hire and reward. It doesn’t matter whether this is a direct or indirect payment. As the hirer, it is your responsibility, if you are found to have provided a hire and reward service, then you must have, where more than 8 passengers are carried, a bus operators licence, the chauffeur must have an appropriate PCV licence and the vehicle must have a Certificate of Initial Fitness. This is no grey area, it is cast in stone!

 

London Hotels, Limousine Hire and You. A note of caution

 

If you are staying in a Hotel in London and you want to order the services of a company providing stretched limousines for hire, the chances are you will enquire at the front desk or, ask the Concierge for a recommendation. It is highly probable that your Hotel will be able to recommend one or two companies, after all, this is not an unusual request! You may also assume that because the Hotel is prepared to recommend these companies, that they have also vetted them. This may be the case, but equally, it may not.

 

Therefore the onus is on you to either ask the Hotel what vetting procedure they have, if any, or to check direct with the company offering the services. No-one should assume that, just because a company is offering limousines for hire and they have been recommended, that they comply with all of the necessary local legislation. In fact, many Hotels may not even understand the obligations these companies are under. So here is some advice for travellers, that may want to hire a stretched limousine during their stay in London.

 

Limousine Operators based in Greater London and operating a hire or reward business must be licensed. In most cases, this will be with the Public Carriage Office, but some may have opted for a Bus Operator’s Licence, which is issued by the Traffic Commissioners. A recent survey of 20 London hotels indicated that 95% of them did not know that the limousine operators had to be licensed. In addition, none of them could be certain that the companies they currently recommended were licensed. Whilst this was an unscientific survey, it does suggest that there is a lack of knowledge within the Hotel industry in London relating to the use of American Stretched Limousines in the capital. The most common form of licensing for limousines is Private Hire, which in London is managed by the Public Carriage Office (PCO).

 

So what are the benefits of using a licensed limousine company?

• Whether a limousine company is licensed by the Traffic Commissioners or the Public Carriage Office, their business will be subjected to regular checks and scrutiny by the relevant licensing officers.

• Every limousine will be required to be registered as a Private Hire Vehicle or Passenger Carrying Vehicle and as such, will be required to undergo and pass regular tests. These tests are far more stringent than a standard Ministry of Transport Test.

• All Chauffeur’s will be obliged to have an appropriate licence. Depending on which licensing authority they come under, they will be required to have either a PCO Licence or an appropriate PCV Licence. To obtain either, the Chauffeur will be required to pass a medical and a criminal records bureau check.

• The Licensing Officers will check on the validity of the insurance on each licensed vehicle and they will be entitled to check their Public Liability Insurance for suitability.

 

What else does the Hotel need to know?

• The maximum number of passengers that can be carried in a vehicle licensed by the Public Carriage Office is eight. Irrespective of the actual size of the vehicle.

• If a limousine company is licensed as a Bus Operator, they may be able to offer limousines that carry more than 8 passengers, but only if the limousine has a Certificate of Initial Fitness. Most limousines cannot meet the requirements, therefore, very few limousine companies will be able to offer a limousine with a seating capacity of more than 8 for hire or reward.

 

How can the Hotel be certain that the limousine company and their vehicles are properly licensed?

• The Public Carriage Office provide a facility whereby each company, limousine and Chauffeur can be checked to see if they have a valid licence. PCO Office.

• VOSA provide an online facility to check on the validity and type of bus operators licence and whether a vehicle is licensed using the registration number. VOSA Online.

 

Hotels that book limousines on behalf of their guests and subsequently bill their customers for the service, may also be acting outside the law, because they are in effect, acting as a limousine operator. Therefore, they could need a Bus Operators Licence or a Private Hire Vehicle Operators Licence issued by the PCO. Hotels that are offering this service to their guests would be well advised to check with the local offices of VOSA or the Public Carriage Office to ensure that what they are doing is legal. Failing which, once they have established that the limousine company is correctly licensed, they may prefer to allow the guest to deal direct.

 

Cars for Stars Limited is a well established and experienced, award winning company providing chauffeur cars and limousines through an extensive branch network. Cars for Stars in London is licensed by the Public Carriage Office (PCO) for private hire. Other Cars for Stars branches are franchised and therefore licensed through their respective local authorities. All Cars for Stars offices are obliged to adhere to the high standards and service as the Group.

 

Cars for Stars offer a full complement of chauffeur driven cars and American limousines for hire and all of the vehicles are exempted from the requirement to affix a private hire plate to the vehicle. As a full service chauffeur cars company, Cars for Stars offer a range of services, which include business and leisure travel, tours, wedding cars, transfers to and from airports, long-term hires, tours, European travel via the Eurotunnel other forms of event transportation.

 

 

Mandy is looking for Cheap Limo Hire

 

Ask anyone that uses the search term ‘Cheap Limo Hire‘ and in all likelihood they will tell you that they don’t really want cheap. What they want is a good deal from a reliable company offering a decent stretched limousine. They may also tell you that it is difficult to differentiate between the good, the bad and the ugly. Maybe that it is nigh on impossible to compare offers because no two organisations are the same and they would be right. This article uses a fictitious character, Mandy and two fictitious companies to investigate how these differences arise, and how Mandy might compare each aspect of the offer from the limo company, including the actual limousine, the type of business, any additional services and the ‘pedigree’ of the organisation.

 

There is no intention of coming to a definitive conclusion, because Mandy, like everyone else is an individual and when hiring a limousine, it is very much a case of horses for courses, there is no right, nor wrong. But knowing how to compare the different offers may be useful to others that fact the same challenge. Many is looking to hire for herself and seven friends, this makes it a large responsibility, because if she and her friends have a bad experience, you can be certain, that they will forget the the ‘cheap price’ long before they forget a cheap experience. Therefore, Mandy’s responsibility, like many other real life characters is a potentially daunting one.

 

Mandy has decided that she wants to go to the NIA in Birmingham to see her favourite band, with a group of her friends and, has been charged with the hire a limousine to take them to and from the event. Mandy searches the internet, completes some online forms and receives two replies, one limo company is cheaper than the other, so Mandy calls both companies.

 

Limo Company One

Is asking £325 for the two journeys. The company is licensed for private hire, the vehicles are licensed as private hire vehicles and all of the chauffeurs are licensed to drive private hire vehicles, meaning the chauffeur’s have had to pass a medical and criminal records bureau check. Limo Company One, is offering a 3 month old, silver Chrysler 300 stretched limousine for the journey. They have also offered to include a bottle of Champagne. Limo Company One has confirmed that their vehicles are subjected to bi-annual checks by local authority authorised test centres. These are much stricter than a normal  vehicle test,  even checking that all of the lights and other electrical items inside the limousine are working. Limo Company One, is a full-time operator, VAT registered and has been trading for over 5 years. They operate from commercial premises and have invited Mandy to view the limousine at their premises or if she is too busy, they will point her to the high resolution pictures on their website.

 

Limo Company Two

Is asking £250 for the two journeys. The company has not yet licensed their company for private hire, therefore, they have no need to licence their limousines or drivers. They are offering a 2001 Lincoln Stretched limousine in white, which has covered 168,000, but is in “excellent condition”. The vehicle has recently passed a normal MOT test. Mandy can only view the limousine in the evening, as long it is not on hire, because Limo Company Two only operates on a part-time basis, from their home and their partner is not keen on too many late night visitors! Because Limo Company Two is a “part-time limo company”, there is no need for the business to be VAT registered and they have “only been trading for 6 months”. Limo Company Two can’t show any pictures of the actual limousine, because their website is under construction, but it does includes generic pictures of the same type of limousine.  Limo Company Two has offered to throw in a bottle of “Bubbly” for Mandy and her friends.

 

So which company is the cheapest? Obviously Limo Company Two. But is it a fair comparison, one price is lower than the other, but it is not a like for like comparison? One company is offering a brand new limousine, the other, one that is nearly 7 years old. One company has taken the time, trouble and expense to licence their business, limousines and chauffeurs, the other has not. One company operates full-time, from commercial premises and has been established for over 5 years, the other has confirmed that they are part-time, work from home and new to the business.

 

Limo Company One has invited Mandy to view the limousine at their premises, or indicated that high resolution images of the actual limousine are on their website, Limo Company Two has also invited Mandy to view the limousine, but is not keen on personal visitors at their home address and is unable to show images of the actual limousine, but Mandy can see the “type of limo it is” from the generic images on Limo Company Two’s website. Finally, Limo Company One are offering Champagne, whilst Limo Company Two is providing Bubbly. So which company is the cheapest?

 

The difference in price between the two limousine companies works out at just over £9 per head. If Mandy and her friends just want a cheap form of transport to get to and from the event and she is not bothered about niceties such as licensing, (which after all is the responsibility of the limo company), plus she admits that she and her friends can’t tell the difference between Bubbly and Champagne, then the chances are, she would be better off going with Limo Company Two. Or, perhaps consider another form of low cost transport, such as a minibus.

 

However, if Mandy believes that the journey to and from the event should be part of the whole experience and, she firmly believes that companies that invest in their business, vehicles and staff are likely to offer a positive and enjoyable experience, then she would be better off going to Limo Company One. After all, the difference is only £9 per head, they have not cut corners by offering cheap Bubbly and Mandy may well believe that trying to save a few pounds on a bottle of alcohol may be symptomatic of other short cuts that she and her friends can’t see.

 

So which company is the cheapest?

This article cannot answer that question, nor does it seek to, because Mandy is an individual. The purpose of this article is to highlight the differences between the two companies by comparing aspects other than the headline price. It will be clear to many, that if Mandy were squeeze a little more money from her friends, then she could get much better value for money by going for Limo Company One, but if price is critical and she is prepared to take a larger gamble, perhaps she should place her business with Limo Company Two and then she will have achieved her objective of getting a cheap limo. If truth be told, no-one that hires a limo really wants a cheap limo, what they want is to understand the differences and achieve the best value.

 

Cars for Stars do not offer cheap limo hire. They are an award winning company providing late model, high value chauffeur driven cars and stretched limousines, with a service to match. Cars for Stars offer limousines and chauffeur cars through a network of franchised offices. All of which accept and operate to the same exacting standards, providing a quality service, with first class limousines at a fair and representative price. If you are not looking for cheap limo hire, but you want service, reliability and a choice of quality limousines representing real value for money, then call your local Cars for Stars branch.

 

All Cars for Stars branches are licensed for private hire by the relevant local authority, in London this is the Public Carriage Office (PCO). This means that all Cars for Stars franchisees are registered for private hire, the limousines are licensed as private hire vehicles and the chauffeurs are licensed to drive the cars and limousines.

 

If you are looking for limousine hire or chauffeur car hire companies based in the UK, then you could try the following internet resources. Chauffeur Cars Directory, Chauffeur Cars & Limousine Directory, as other general web directories with large limousine sections.

 

Limo Company One and Limo Company Two are ficticious names used for the purpose of producing this article. Any similarlity to any companies or businesses past or present is purely coincidental. Oh yes, Mandy is also a ficticious character!

 

Cheap Limo Hire, Cut Glass or Diamond?

 

Ask any professional jeweller and he will tell you the difference between a genuine diamond, cut glass or zirconia. Similarly, a professional limousine company will be able to tell the difference between a company offering cheap limo hire and one offering genuine value for money. The reality is, basic economics dictate that no limousine company can offer cheap limo hire unless they are offering less. Maybe it is an older limousine, an inferior service or maybe they have not licensed their business, limousines or chauffeurs for private hire. It is something of a guessing game, but the if you get it wrong, the ultimate price will be yours.

 

This limousine business is a service industry, so ask yourself this, when was the last time you heard someone refer to a ‘cheap service’ other than in a derogatory manner? Also, what self-respecting company would refer to their service as cheap? The dictionary describes the word cheap as ‘of poor quality, inferior, worthy of no respect, vulgar or contemptible. If you are seeking to hire a limousine for a special occasion or event, the last thing you will want is an inferior or cheap service. Of course, the reality is, most limousine companies do not advertise cheap limo hire, but some limo agencies and brokers do, so what message are these third parties trying to convey?

 

Could it be that the companies they represent are cheap, offer an inferior service or limousine, or perhaps the implication is that the agent or broker can negotiate a cheap price. Lets deal with each point. Few limousine companies can afford, or would wish to cut corners, they must buy their limos, insure them, provide public liability insurance, service and repair the limousines, employ professional chauffeurs, licence the company and vehicles and then add fuel. In all likelihood, the only place they can save money is on the cost of the limousine, the servicing or maintenance. Offering an inferior limousine would be counter productive, because it would be apparent to the customer and a failure to service or properly maintain the limo will lead to reliability problems.  Therefore, if they don’t cut corners and offer a like for like product and service, can they really offer cheap limo hire? Unlikely.

 

Perhaps the agent or broker is suggesting that they can negotiate a better deal than you can. Maybe, but once again, the basic economics must come into play here. The agent or broker has to receive their commission or fees, so who is going to pay that? No matter whether you are charged an agents fee direct, or the limousine company pays a commission, in the end, you are paying. So where is the saving coming from that allows it to be described as cheap limo hire? Surely, it is beyond reasonable comprehension, that a limousine company can offer a service and product equal to or better than their competitors, pay over a slice of their income to a third party and still come in cheaper. Once again, unlikely? A Chinese Proverb reminds us “cheap things are not good, good things are not cheap”.

 

Cars for Stars do not offer cheap limo hire. They are an award winning company providing late model, high value chauffeur driven cars and stretched limousines, with a service to match. Cars for Stars do not accept hires from anyone that would dare to describe their service or limousines as ‘cheap’. In fact, Cars for Stars do not accept any sub-contracted limousine hires. Cars for Stars offer limousines and chauffeur cars through a network of franchised offices. All of which accept and operate to the same exacting standards, providing a quality service, with first class limousines at a fair and representative price. If you are not looking for cheap limo hire, but you want service, reliability and a quality limousine representing real value for money, then call your local Cars for Stars branch.

 

 

Dates announced for Royal Ascot 2008

 

The organisers of Royal Ascot 2008 have announced the dates in June 2008. These are Tuesday 17th June until Saturday 21st June, Ladies Day will be on Thursday 19th June. Of course, Royal Ascot is the UK’s most popular race meeting and, it is also the time of the year when most limousine companies are fully booked, often months in advance. In addition, there have been changes within the Licensing regime covering limousine operators, as a result, it is likely that there will be fewer limousines available in 2008, than there were in 2007, so this year, perhaps more than any previous year, the mantle ‘book early to avoid disappointment’ has never more relevant.

 

In 2008, every limousine company in the UK will have to be licensed for ‘hire or reward’, some have already achieved this and others are currently going through the process. But why leave it to chance. Cars for Stars is a national company operating through local franchised offices. Each franchise is already licensed by their local authority for private hire and in the case of London, by the Public Carriage Office. Cars for Stars has an impressive range of chauffeur driven cars and limousines for hire, as well as a limousine hire package for Royal Ascot. The Licensing regime means that the company, limousines and the chauffeurs have to be Licensed, providing customers with the added confidence that an independent third party is providing some oversight, against measurable and tangible standards.